"Emotions make the need for dialogue clear"

Annemarieke de Man is a lecturer at Aeres where, among other things, she teaches students animal care, management and health care. She talks to Franck Meijboom, a professor at Utrecht University and head of the Centre for Sustainable Animal Stewardship (CenSAS), about emotions during a dialogue, clients with critical questions and collaboration between academia and professional practice.

"We have 2,500 animals at college, everything from fish to camels", says Annemarieke de Man. "Our students end up working at zoos, livestock farms, petting zoos, veterinary practices and pet shops, to name but a few. We are finding that clients and visitors are becoming increasingly savvy. When our students leave college, we expect them to be able to provide information and respond to critical questions in a respectful way. That's why we teach students social skills. Engaging in a dialogue is part of that." Franck Meijboom nods in agreement. "Being able to engage in an effective dialogue around the way we treat animals is crucial for these students."

How do you engage an effective dialogue?

Meijboom: "It’s important to be quiet, to listen and to be open to other people’s views and opinions." De Man adds: "They must allow for and be respectful of different points of view, and the people involved are allowed to change their opinions during the course of the conversation."

Tensions sometimes run high, especially when talking about the way we treat animals. How do you deal with emotions?

Meijboom: “You don’t need to be afraid of emotions; they make the need for dialogue clear. Making room for emotions and tensions is important and is what makes the dialogue interesting. You also have to create a safe situation in which everyone – including people with different opinions – can say what they think."

Through this collaboration, you are encouraging a dialogue between university and MBO. What is the added value of this?

De Man: "Academia and professional practice can help each other. We saw this, for example, when scientific research showed that rabbits are sociable animals. From then on, people buying a rabbit were advised to buy two. But this also immediately raised questions among teachers, students and professionals in animal sanctuaries and pet shops, among others. Because how do we know which rabbits will get along well with each other? We came up with something on this together: These days rabbits go 'on a date' first. That way, science and professional practice reinforce each other."

Franck, what drives you to engage in dialogues around human-animal relationships?

"The subject is immensely interesting. The interaction between humans and animals provides a great deal of pleasure, for both parties. But it’s also a difficult one. What is the best way to treat animals? What do we think is responsible and what isn’t? Last week I was visiting Aeres where a group of MBO students were having a lesson on animal handling, including snakes and a kind of lizard called a bearded dragon. The lesson is technical, but you also immediately feel the relational side. Students thought it was special to hold a reptile like this, and took photos with it. This raises questions. Does taking photos show respect for the individual animal? Is posing for the photo detrimental to its well-being? Without passing judgement on what is right or wrong, I think those questions are a great starting point for a dialogue. Whenever I’m watching someone working with animals for more than 10 minutes, it immediately raises all kinds of questions for me."

It’s important is to be open-minded when listening to others

Annemarieke, what is the first dialogue at Aeres MBO about?

"Our first joint dialogue is on responsible pet ownership and will take place in December 2024. This issue is currently extremely topical; take the publication of the positive list [animals that you are allowed to buy, keep and sell, ed.], for example, and discussions around whether cats should be allowed to go outside at night or in the breeding season." Meijboom adds: "Other things to consider before you’re allowed to keep animals are healthcare costs, insurance and mandatory training."

Dialogue is sometimes regarded as a magic solution for connecting people. What is your view on that?

Meijboom: "It’s a misconception that dialogue always leads to connection. It can also expose tensions. So, our aim is not only to connect people, but also to strengthen mutual understanding and give people the opportunity to think about any preconceptions that they may have. As you engage in conversation you often gain new insights."

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